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King of the Hill

King of the Hill is a three team sector control mission within ArmA 3. As you play you will gain experience which will in turn unlock new gear and vehicles to aid your teams efforts to control the zone.
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King of the Hill: RHS

RHS King of the Hill is a version that combines the popular RHS mod with KotH. In this version of the award winning sector control mission you play as Nato or Russian forces. Just like in vanilla KotH you will gain experience by playing which will in turn unlock new gear and vehicles to aid your teams efforts to control the zone. RHS and vanilla stats are separately saved in our database and are displayed here: https://stats.armakoth.com
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King of the Hill: 1944

1944 King of the Hill is a version that combines the popular IFA3 mod with KotH. In this version of the award winning sector control mission you play as German or Russian/American forces. Just like in vanilla KotH you will gain experience by playing which will in turn unlock new gear and vehicles to aid your teams efforts to control the zone. 1944 and vanilla stats are separately saved in our database and are displayed here: https://stats.armakoth.com
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Quietpink

Considering removal of three long range scopes or banning people from helicopter sniping

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I know a lot of people who play KOTH are simply tired of a many number of people who sit over 1000 meters away from the AO and have no effect or intention on helping the team. Which it seems why usually one or two of the teams are always stacked. I know removing the 408 and lynx would help but be unfair. But considering removing the long range scopes to bring more people in to actually playing the objective.


But my main concern even though it technically isn't against the rules. It should be considering banning if caught. Is that I have now caught two different groups of people doing this. Is sniping from the helicopter. These people will either use a friend or second computer and sit 600 meters above sniping up to 1000 meters out. So if your on the opposing team you can't hear any shots and trying to find a tiny little hummingbird in the sky is virtually impossible. So you have people going 60-70 kills with 0 deaths. I've been killed in the most impossible spots and when your sitting in these helicopters sniping you have a complete overlook of the whole map and no one will ever find you or hear your shots.


I just think it should be a consideration of looking into it

Thanks

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That seems like a very good strat to use. don't penalize the creative in my opinion if they are killing that many people in the ao they are indeed helping the team.

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I will discuss this with the other but not going to penalize players just because its hard thing to counter. Sniping from a helo is not as easy as you make it out to be.

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I think there is not enough emphasis on completing the team objective when incentivizing individual actions in KoTH.


The fight should be on the ground, in the AO, where the individual can actually contribute towards securing points for the team.

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Certain players play this game for kills. Not for the objective. Its like this for COD, BF and any other FPS shooting game you will found out their. You cant always force people to play the objective. You can incentivize them but those who dont wanna play the A.O isnt gonna. Its no different from those who snipe 2-3 clicks outside the A.O

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Yes, but games like COD and BF at least have ways to discourage players from leaving the play area, such as implementing invisible walls to prevent them from leaving the map, or countdowns to death when they move past a certain boundary. ArmA and KoTH have none of these things, and thus control of gameplay is tilted even more in favor of those who don't want to go to the AO, much less stay in the AO. There is no mechanism preventing any faction from staying completely outside of the AO for the duration of the game.

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I find the sniping in Koth to be a really enjoyable expericence. Taking out the long range scopes would be a terrible thing for the server and I feel like allot of people would stop playing the server if that happened. Please, Don't ruin our sniping fun. It's easy to find and kill snipers.

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Think of it this way: That sniper that is 1000+ meters away will never contribute to capturing the zone.


I love it when the enemy team has long distance snipers because they are really only effective against stationary targets. I'm always moving.

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Think of it this way: That sniper that is 1000+ meters away will never contribute to capturing the zone.


I love it when the enemy team has long distance snipers because they are really only effective against stationary targets. I'm always moving.

 

That is exactly why I don't think there should be snipers in KoTH. Factions can have no one inside the AO with 5-6 snipers on the same hill trying to take out people in the AO. Rather than fly to the AO, pilots land on a hill far away from the AO, leaving people stranded at base. They don't contribute anything meaningful towards completing the objective, and when they end up as a significant minority they are often the reason why a faction which ties with other ones falls behind.


The bigger issue is allowing people to simply stay outside of the AO for extended amounts of time. On an infantry server there is no reason why people should be camping outside of the AO waiting for kills. KoTH matches are dragged on for far too long because factions rotate between focusing on getting people into the AO and just trying to drop off people outside of it.

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Snipers can help the team alot if they are good and vocal. Calling out enemy position, laser marking, calling when enemy is rushing a tower.

I would say maybe 2/10 snipers are actually effective, just because the other 8 are bad and not contributing doesn't warrant trying to remove sniping all together. Removing or punishing people who enjoy sniping will seriously hurt the servers.

I know sometimes ill play 2 full rounds of rushing/attacking, it is nice to take a break and snipe for a round even if im not doing the best.


As far as the helicopter sniping, It is very easy to tell when somebody is doing that. They will usually have that crazy score of 80-0 or if you are getting sniped from a weird angle.

It can be countered very easy, once you know its happening get somebody to help you, get in a hummingbird and fly up to them.


If you really wanna remove long range scopes, might as well just remove hummingbirds and kill the server outright.


I find the people who usually complain about the heli sniping or snipers are usually on the losing team, continue to cry about it over and over but take no action to actually try and counter them. /shrug

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As far as the helicopter sniping, It is very easy to tell when somebody is doing that. They will usually have that crazy score of 80-0 or if you are getting sniped from a weird angle.

It can be countered very easy, once you know its happening get somebody to help you, get in a hummingbird and fly up to them.

 

 

The point is you would like to kill them before they inflict that much havoc on the team.

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Ok on the helicopter sniping thing, well maybe that should be limited somehow. Maybe through very limited Heli fuel so they have to go back and get another / refuel? A max height that can be flown to? Or if needed, disable the ability to scope in while in a helicopter? Just a few suggestions if it is really a problem.


On the issue of sniping, I think it is a great thing and shouldn't be removed. Sniping takes skill and patience. It's not like you just get a sniper rifle and just instantly kill everyone. I personally would hate the idea of everyone being forced to go into the AO and fight up close and personal. This being one of the few games where a sniper rifle is a sniper rifle is something I love. Its not just run up, quickscope/flick shot and use it as an OP rifle. Just my 2 cents.

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I've only come in late on this thread but here's my two cents- Why not simply shoot down the snipers helis with AA missiles? The helis show up on radar and thermals don't they, or am I missing something?

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Wrong. Us #4 and severs that are infantry only do not have thermals or AA. They do have a Verona which is close to AA, but the Verona in not true AA weapon. The problem is what about the people who aren’t that high of enough of a level to shoot them down cause they don’t have the proper weapons unlocked yet. How are they suppose to deal with people who heli snipe when the don’t have any weapons and aren’t allowed to ram them to kill them?

No one should have an complete over view of the entire map. 

Edited by Quietpink

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8 hours ago, PoorOldSpike said:

I've only come in late on this thread but here's my two cents- Why not simply shoot down the snipers helis with AA missiles? The helis show up on radar and thermals don't they, or am I missing something?

probably just as late as you to be honest to put a post up but

yes they can be annoying but so is people using AA on infantry what you all seem to forget is that arma is a open world FPS so if everyone was doing the same thing there would be no challenge to the game as long as there is a way to counter it it's still fair.

every tactic has a weakness  

Edited past this

also to the point of cod having invisible walls ye thats good and all but in got you just spawn in you dont have a base and hellis and so on in them sort of games

Edited by David James
forgot somthing

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28 minutes ago, David James said:

... if everyone was doing the same thing there would be no challenge to the game ...

I vehemently disagree with you on that point. It is precisely because there is so much freedom offered to players, encouraging them all to do their own thing, that the environment to develop and practice more sophisticated tactics, strategies, and methods of organization does not exist.

KOTH gameplay is currently very shallow, and hasn't really changed much from its inception.

Edited by mbamg

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If people wanted to do there own thing. Then codefour could make a team deathmatch server, or remake the old wasteland server. The point of king of the hill it to complete the objective.  Not just to camp 1000 meters away sniping just for kills only 

And to make the point above about being an open world such as people using AA on infantry and such. Shouldn’t I be allowed to ram my helicopter or plane into a heli sniper to kill them. Like you said being open world I should be able to use whatever tactic to take out the heli sniper.

Edited by Quietpink

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1 hour ago, Quietpink said:

If people wanted to do there own thing. Then codefour could make a team deathmatch server, or remake the old wasteland server. The point of king of the hill it to complete the objective.  Not just to camp 1000 meters away sniping just for kills only 

And to make the point above about being an open world such as people using AA on infantry and such. Shouldn’t I be allowed to ram my helicopter or plane into a heli sniper to kill them. Like you said being open world I should be able to use whatever tactic to take out the heli sniper.

if im not incorrect

them people sniping are still helping the objective assisting the people in the AO same with jets and so on the whole point of king of the kill is to keep the objective this does not just include infantry because such game with only infantry would be team deathmatch.. koth on the other hand is designed to be a full scale tac game mode not just about taking towers and making the odd point but about taking the enemy out of the AO and trying to keep them out so in my opinion there is many ways to win a koth game and not all of them include having all the people in the AO   

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3 hours ago, David James said:

in my opinion there is many ways to win a koth game and not all of them include having all the people in the AO   

Since this discussion has shifted from sniping to achieving superiority I'm going to go off on a tangent here:

Yet team balance makes it so that factions are fairly balanced if in numbers only, making it so that every faction must strive to get as many players as possible in the circle so that they have a chance of gaining and maintaining control of the AO. 

The only way to get points is to have the most players out of all factions inside the circle. You can set snipers, ambushers, and long range AT outside the circle to pick people off, but unless your faction currently dominates the circle, every second spent outside the AO is precious time that could be spent trying to stay in the circle and gain points for the team. The ability to dominate the circle leads to the opportunity to deny entry to the circle from within and without. Without achieving the first goal you cannot afford to aim for the second, and given sufficiently demoralized and disorganized enemy teams you might not even need to follow up once you've done the first.

Gaining entry to a circle dominated by a stacked team requires larger scale and more sophisticated combined arms tactics and strategies not usually seen on a public server, along with experienced, skilled and cooperative players to execute them. Constant surveillance and reconnaisance by vehicle FLIR cameras (outside the AO, which reduces the amount of players available to enter the AO) are needed to identify enemy positions, movement, and potential DZs and LZs. Snipers (who cannot reside in the AO for this purpose, making this endeavour very risky) need to identify and laser designate key enemy targets, whether it be structures, vehicles, or infantry, and engage high priority targets when they can. A mixture of paradropping and landing at dynamic DZs and LZs is required to quickly insert large amounts of players into the circle, and due to the dynamic nature of the circle, there needs to be 2 to 3 competent pilots who can operate on a schedule.

From this alone, one can discern that a faction which can take back the circle from a stacked team needs to be at the very least twice as competent. That's not going to happen when most of the highest level, wealthiest, experienced, and skilled players stack a different team.

Going back to the original topic, this is why snipers are useless in most cases. They don't usually designate targets or report them, much less prioritize and coordinate with the rest of the team. They aren't parasites, but usually add no value to the faction.

Right now a faction which doesn't have control of the circle with just 4 less players than the dominating faction is already at a severe disadvantage. Add the high level weapons available to experienced and wealthy players and victory for a stacked team is almost always assured when a new game begins.

Edited by mbamg

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21 hours ago, Quietpink said:

Us #4 and severs that are infantry only do not have thermals or AA. They do have a Verona which is close to AA, but the Verona in not true AA weapon..

Yes, it's difficult to keep track of which weapons are in which server, I try to keep a written list in front of me..:)

Plus of course some weapons are 'Disabled' and not allowed anyway (why?), and others need a higher Level to access.

I'm currently only Level 11 in RHS and it's a hassle not being able to have whatever I want, it reminds me of kiddies platform games where you have to rack up your score to unlock the next level. (yawn).

You mentioned the Vorona, it's not a bad piece of kit if you're allowed to have it, it's got thermals so maybe it could spot heli-snipers.

It's an AT weapon and can lock up vehicles but not helis, but you can fire  unlocked and it'll fly down the crosshairs and hit the chopper, I've seen it done against assorted choppers (including mine) but only if the choppers hovering or flying straight towards or away from the Vorona with no angular momentum.

Oh, and the Vorona's rocket will always veer off and miss if the chopper is over about 2000 metres away, as it can't ride the crosshairs further than that, at least in vanilla AA3.

 

 

Edited by PoorOldSpike

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PS- The Titan AT shoulder-launcher can fire unlocked too, its got thermals and its rocket will ride the crosshairs for 3000m before veering off which makes it better than the Vorona. I once downed a Ghosthawk at extreme range like that but only because it was obligingly hovering and was an easy target..:)

Edited by PoorOldSpike

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Another thought just struck me-

As ramming sniper-helis is illegal, why not do the next best thing and go hunting them in your own Hummingbird while carrying one or two riflemen on the bench seat to hose them down?

You could slowly orbit the AO at a couple of kms out at low level and sooner or later you'll eyeball the sniper-heli silhouetted as a dot against the sky and can yell "TALLYHO!" and go bust his ass..:)

 

Edited by PoorOldSpike

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If someone is skilled enough to succeed at what you suggest then their efforts will have an even bigger impact when inside the circle.

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As far as King of the Hill Infantry servers go, long range sniping with the LRR or Lynx is not conducive to fun or objective gameplay; and thus, for the betterment of the game, should be removed. 

In regards to fun, players in this type of game find it most frustrating when presented an opponent in which they are unable to neutralize, since in this case a sniper over 1000m out, and which he can fire upon the player with impunity. This is the issue in which two other shooters, Armored Warfare and World of Tanks, also have in regards to artillery that players can use to fire from long range and behind cover against other players that could not do the same. The solution Armored Warfare took to solve this issue was to simply remove artillery from PvP. Though in World of Tanks, this issue still remains even after many nerfs and tweeks.

In regards to playing the objective, the LRR and Lynx add no value. Players who use these guns one do so to farm kills and do not assist the team in winning for the obvious reason they are kilometers outside the AO. If they wanted to do reconnaissance for the team, then such weapons are unnecessary to that role, since reconnaissance really only requires a laser designator and guns are optional. In fact, it's kind of difficult for a scout to do a "sneak and peak" when the scout is spending all his time blasting away, not spotting for the team, and revealing his own position to be killed.

Removal of the Lynx and LRR will not be the end of the world for snipers. There are substitutes weapons that provide similar enough gameplay for those who do enjoy sniping, such as the 9.3mm sniper rifles or 7.62mm sniper rifles if you have skill or don't have DLC. This also ought to make those who want to become a sniper learn to become a good sniper. After all, if you're a true marksman, any gun you hold is a sniper rifle. 

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