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Navid/SPMG Silencer Balance Discussion


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The Navid and SPMG do not need to be nerfed (IMO). 

 

I've gotten into a few discussions on the Discord recently regarding the balance of the Navid so I figured I'd make a comprehensive post outlining my arguments in favor of the Navid/SPMG since that was also nerfed alongside the Navid last Summer, to hopefully spark a more permanent conversation. I've attached an image presenting my argument as well as a TL:DR down below incase anyone wants a short summary.
    

     It has been almost a year since the Navid/SPMG silencers were removed on the basis the guns were OP, but were they actually OP? These guns receive a disproportionate amount of hate compared to other guns, but are they actually disproportionately strong? I don't think so, I think they should be un-nerfed and regain their silencers (At least on the US2 Hardcore server). Here I compare the Navid/SPMG to their most similar counterpart, the Zafir. These guns are sorted from top to bottom by damage-per-minute (DPM). Right away we can see that the SPMG lags behind the other two significantly, it is surprising that it even got lumped in with the Navid nerf in the first place. Compared to the Zafir it is heavier, has lower DPM, and lower penetration - I think the SPMG deserves its silencer back as a trade-off.  It is nowhere near OP.
    

     Now let's talk about the Navid. We can see the Navid/Zafir have comparable penetration. The Navid has ~15%+ higher DPM than the Zafir, but the Navid is also ~20% heavier. The ammo is also ~20% heavier per magazine - 50 mass units per Zafir mag, 70 mass units per Navid mag - So a standard loadout (Gun loaded, 1 mag in vest) for the Zafir is 420 mass units while a standard Navid loadout is 520 mass units. Therefore, while the Navid is slightly stronger, it is also more-than-proportionately heavy than the Zafir.
    

     While it is true that the Navid usually 1-taps people and the Zafir usually doesn't, the Zafir's 952 round-per-minute rate-of-fire means it fires ~15.86 bullets per second, or one bullet every .063 seconds. So even though the first bullet might not kill you, you have a fraction of a second before the second one kills you (The first bullet probably broke your legs anyways so you aren't dodging the second one). The moment someone with a Zafir looks at you and fires you are just as screwed as if they had a Navid. Except the Zafir is way lighter, unlocked at a much earlier level, has lower shot dispersion (meaning it's more accurate), and has a higher base bullet velocity (The Navid has roughly equal velocity when it's silenced, but lower when not). So what are the tradeoff's of using the Navid now that its silencer was removed? Pretty much none. The high weight and recoil of the Navid are more-than-fair balance to the silencer so I believe the silencer should be re-added. I believe the disproportionate amount of complains against the Navid are not grounded by facts but rather due to the Navid being the weapon of choice for many higher level experienced players, meaning lower level, less-experienced players will die/rage to it more than the Zafir or other guns.

 

     TL:DR - SPMG is not OP and shouldn't be nerfed, it's worse than the Zafir. Additionally, the Zafir is just as deadly as the Navid but significantly lighter, more accurate, has higher velocity, is unlocked earlier, and is permabuyable - The Zafir is better in almost every way now that the Navid has no silencer yet no-one complains about the Zafir and everyone still complains about the Navid. This is completely irrational and hopefully goes to show that the nonstop complaining against the Navid is and always was unfounded - People use the Navid as a scapegoat because high-level players slap them around with it.

 

I think the arguments I've presented in favor of the Navid silencer are strongly backed with evidence whereas the arguments against the silencer basically always boil down to "REEE Navid OP" despite other guns being equally 'OP' and never receiving the same outrage (Although I'd love to hear better counter-arguments). I hope the decision to remove the silencers is reconsidered - At least for the Hardcore server. US2 has always been less noob-friendly (No spawn truck, 1p only) so I don't think this proposal is too radical. It could always be removed again if it became too problematic.

If anything maybe this will spark a good discussion. 

 

Sources:
https://armedassault.fandom.com/wiki/SPMG
https://armedassault.fandom.com/wiki/Zafir
https://armedassault.fandom.com/wiki/Navid

 

- Hotline Miami 2 / memes

Navid Manifesto.png

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Looking back at this I realize my summary is a bit convoluted so just to reframe: Although the silenced Navid is probably the strongest infantry gun in the game, that shouldn't matter - It's the last weapon you unlock so it should be the best. What matters is if its too strong (I don't believe it is). With the silencer, it's a slightly better Zafir. 

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Just cause you unlock a gun last doesn't mean you should just be the most op player on the server also bigger round does more ouchie each gun has it's ups and downs but you are comparing a 7.62 vs a round should have 6x the penning power.
In short you are comparing a standard rifle round vs a movable HMG but the silencer wasn't around when i joined KOTH/C4G but i'd much rather here the sound of the gun shooting at me then not if you can't see your enemy nor hear them you have no fighting chance which was prob a reason it was removed 

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Unless all guns in Arma are made equal, one gun has to be the best, it doesn't mean it's broken - If it wasn't the Navid it'd be the Zafir. The Navid has a bigger bullet yes however the Zafir's firerate brings its overall damage-per-second way up, leaving both guns near identical to one another in overall damage output. The guns also have near identical pen power, these values are listed on the wiki and shown in my image above. The Zafir has almost all the pro's of the Navid with none of the drawbacks. And if you don't think guns unlocked at higher levels should be stronger, it sounds like you're against the progression system as a whole and not the Navid in particular. 

I was around for the silencer days and in my opinion people blew it way out of proportion. When I was low level I died to experienced players who had silenced Navids all the time (Even Boe) and I NEVER blamed the gun. It's a shitty cop-out driven by a shitty-mindset. 

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I am in agreence with miami here. I was also around in the silencer days and honestly I don't think it made a huge impact in a nerf. In a game that is a milsim it is the sadly reality that its not fair in these types of games. Do you want balance or do you want realism.

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Machineguns are indeed very powerful but I think if they were all removed people would just switch to using high caliber marksmen rifles like the Cyrus, MAR10, ASP, Lynx, etc instead. Everyone would still be running around 1-tapping eachother. 

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Well alright then all that's left are assault rifles, one assault rifle is still going to be the best - It would be the Navid situation all over again. People will always complain about the meta, they're never satisfied. That's why I think it's best to just not cave in to their demands

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This is going to be true for any game there is always a meta setup that everybody runs and people find annoying there is no game that gets balance 100 percent right. You have to make guns and classes differ from each other this in of itself creates some diversity but ultimately leads to imbalance.

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